Future of 64bit processors, Simulators & Emulators

[Gandalf]

hi friends,

I was just wondering what will be the future of 64bit processors ? Though personally I feel they will be the next craze - what do you think ? And when do you think will the 64bit machines become the defacto processors for desktops.

And what do u think about the future of writing simulators/emulators for these processors.

Thank you
Gandalf

[hartyl]

hey, 64bit-processors are the future.

in the next few months the AMD64 will be sold more and more, everything will adapt. as well as simulators and emulators. see, 64bit-emularors are already avalible, i think

[Moose]

I understand theres been a 64bit vesion of windows xp available for a while now and since amd64 processors have backwards compat for 32bit apps im surpised vendors havent taken the idea up as quickly as they should do as a huge marketing opportunity. Like the race to be the first to market 64bit cpus in their package pc's, like the race that intel and amd had with making the 1ghz speed cpu, and i dont see any 64bit cpu ad's in pcworld.

Moose.

[common]

64-bit processors is extremely general.  If you're talking about the x86 path, there are basically two types (x86-64 and IA64).  x86-64 and IA64 are not the same in implementation, x86-64 is reverse compatible with x86, IA64 is *NOT*.  Please note that x86-64 is AMD and IA64 is Intel.

I don't see 64-bit x86-path microprocessors becoming readily available anytime soon.  First, they are too pricy.  Second, large OEMs have yet to sell them.  Thirdly, Intel is not compatible with x86-64, and until Intel is, people will be unlikely to invest money in x86-64.

Do I think that one day, they will be on desktops?  Probably.  However, I don't think it is a month to month thing at all.  I believe a more reasonable time frame would be in the years (at least 5+), before any real commitment is made for either.

However, in 5 years time, its also likely that AMD or Intel (or both) may easily ditch these projects for a more cooperative effort, in the hopes that they both may succeed.

[dr_watts]

Well, 64-bit will be coming closer than you think.

Intel has of course annouced they will be making an x86-64 chip, and are calling it IA-32e (although its really just most of the AMD64 extensions).  

And Large OEM's are selling them.  HP and IBM, perhaps two of the biggest names, both have AMD64 product lines.  Just because Dell is stupid and takes marketing money from Intel in exchange for not selling AMD products, that will not stop its spread (SORRY, I JUST REALLY HATE DELL).  

And as for simulators:  Bochs has x86-64 support (to a point, its emulation) and you also have Simics (which is full scale simulation).  Actually with Simics you can simulate sparc, x86, x86-64, IA-64 (but why would you want to?), and the alpha.  If you can get an academic license, I highly recommend it.

And they are already pretty popular in desktop systems.  No one around here is bragging about getting the latest Prescott... Its all about the Athlon FX.  Checking the AMD roadmaps, the Althon XP has become a bargin product, and they are progressing forward entirely on 64-bit chips.  Only the poor souls who buy P4's or "Extreme Editions" *cough* Xeons *cough* will be without.

But that is just the tirade of avid AMD fan, Opteron owner, and 64-bit OS developer

[common]

However, until applications take advantage of x86-64, you'll still be in a 32-bit world.  Additionally, the technology involved in x86-64 is slower, which is why sizeof(int) is still 4.  Average cycle time for 32-bit integer math, 3 cycles, x86-64 (64-bit integer), 5 cycles.

These machines are still on the 'high end' of things.  Until prices come down, it will be a slow progression.  Remember the switch to the 386?  It came out in 1984, after all.

[dr_watts]

Yeah, I agree.. this is still on the high end..

Just, with AMD pretty much dropping anything but Athlon 64's and Opterons,  they are going to push Intel into a bit of a corner.

But it is pretty easy to run 32-bit software on the machines (basically just switching code segments, there is a bit more, but not much) which means you can run programs that are better suited to 32-bit math (what most of us use), or do high calculation things in 64-bit math (of course, they do need to be optimized for it though)

Actually though, there is more to the Opteron than just 64-bits.  If you read into the manuals, the ABIs and such, they have added a significant number of improvements that would be just as welcome in an x86 machine.  The No Execute Bit, for example, allowing data segments that cannot be executed (i.e. less buffer overflow attacks).  Curiously, Intel chose not to support No Execute with IA-32e.

I would consider the current prices as "comfortable"

Sure the FX is expensive, but the most pricey Athlon 64 (at Pricewatch.com) was only $401 dollars, compared to the Intel P4 3.4 at $418

You can get Opteron chips now for under $200.

But realistically, these won't become what most people would call mainstream until Intel activates the instructions on Prescott chips.  Some people won't buy it unless they see it in a commerical.  Then again, some people are sheep.

[Rambo]

Uhh, actually Intel is compatible. I dunno, I think that x86-64 could become common within the next couple of years. The primary problem right now is prices, and I think that they will be remedied (for the most part) within the next couple of years, as 64 bit compatible motherboards become more common (and therefore cheaper). I'm gonna be saving up for one.

~$250 for an Athlon 64 3000
~$80 for a compatible mobo

I couldn't find any mem prices, but it can't be over a couple hundred. A standard case and all that will do fine.

IMHO an x86-64 system would run you about $500, but that's just me.

[Gandalf]

hi friends,

Thank you for your replies. Actually 64bit m/c do look costly but in the long run they are bound to become cheaper(Well I bought my PIII system for $900 two years back, but right now the hottest deal is PIV for just $400-$500).

However what do you think will be the market for 64bit emulators / Simulators ?
Is it worth investing in it ?

rgds
Gandalf

[bubach]

Well, i don´t know about u guys, but i am getting a amd 64 bit after the summer and i will also make my os 64 bit compatible.. so should u.

/ Christoffer

[Rambo]

Of course it is. One day the processors of today will be like 286s or 386s. The ancient stuff your daddy used.

[BlueFireEXE]

Heh, strange thing is I just downloaded Windows Server 2003 32-bit version and 64-bit with 32-bit capability from microsoft.com, I recently have been nudging myself to buy an AMD-64 so I can install the 64-bit version on to it, but I'm kinda broke.. lol. Not for long though, a few more pay checks and I am going to buy one for sure. (Me = Love Advancements, mais Me = Sad For Assembly Programmers)