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 Post subject: The approaches about natural language programming
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:18 pm 
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The approaches about natural language programming are describe here...

Approach #1: Brute Force Crowd Source. This is the method used in Amazon's ALEXA, Apple's SIRI, Wolfram's ALPHA, Microsoft's CORTANA, Google's HOME, etc. In all these cases, a programmer imagines a question or command that a user will give the machine, and then he writes specific code to answer that specific question ("Alexa, what is the temperature outside?") or carry out that particular command ("Alexa, turn on the living room lights"). Get enough imaginative programmers to write enough routines, et voila! Apparently Intelligent machines that actually exist and work and learn and grow, today.

Approach #2: Dynamically-Generated-User-Tweaked code. This is essentially describe here...

If the programmer is happy with the generated code, (s)he can approve of it and it needn't be saved because it will generate correctly each time before compiling - a label would be attached to the high-level NLP program to tell the compiler that it compiles correctly. If the generated code isn't right though (or isn't complete), that label will not be attached to the NLP code and the support code will need to be saved as part of the program instead. Some of that support code could still be auto-generated initially, creating the loop and setting up the count, for example, while leaving the programmer to fill in the content of the loop manually.

Approach #3 is the one where you build AGI first so that it can solve all the programming problems itself.

What are the programmers' statements about the approaches I quoted above?


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 Post subject: Re: The approaches about natural language programming
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:25 pm 
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The prototypes (ALEXA, SIRI, etc) are based on Approach #1, and they are being scaled up, daily, by a plethora of crowd-programmers motivated by the royalties they hope to get when users employ the "skills" they develop for these machines. So it is clear that we humans know how to build Apparently Intelligent machines, and we know how to motivate our fellow humans to improve and expand and scale up these machines. Pretty hard to compete with that.


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 Post subject: Re: The approaches about natural language programming
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:28 pm 
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This is now the fourth? fifth? thread about "natural language programming" that surfaced in the last couple of months. All of it on the wish-wishing / Sputnik view level. What do you think this will accomplish? That someone will come, wave the magic wand, and suddenly you can program without learning the first thing about data flow, structured programming, version management, diffs and merges, testing etc.?

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 Post subject: Re: The approaches about natural language programming
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:04 pm 
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Solar wrote:
This is now the fourth? fifth? thread about "natural language programming" that surfaced in the last couple of months. All of it on the wish-wishing / Sputnik view level. What do you think this will accomplish? That someone will come, wave the magic wand, and suddenly you can program without learning the first thing about data flow, structured programming, version management, diffs and merges, testing etc.?


Maybe I will find other people who is trying to create the natural language programming or human-language-level programming.

David Cooper is interested in natural-language programming. The Graham Nelson, the creator of the Inform system (http://inform7.com/) is interested in natural-language programming. Pablo, who developed the SAL (the Spanish/English version of the Plain English Programming (https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/na ... l.2559516/) is interested in natural-language programming. Generally speaking, maybe you'll find that people "brought up" in the C-language tradition are less amenable to the idea of natural language programming than people "brought up" in the BASIC/COBOL/Pascal tradition.

Brute-force natural language "understanding" is simple and yet has given us interesting and useful Apparent Intelligences like Amazon's ALEXA, Apple's SIRI, Wolfram's ALPHA, Microsoft's CORTANA and Google's HOME. And Plain English programming.

Plain English Programming is a very good starting point.
Maybe the Plain English Programming is a better route to follow than the neural network approach, and anyone who follows it will likely get to AGI sooner. The neural net approach will create imperfect AGI which may be highly irrational. We'll never be able to trust it. We need to design AGI where we understand every little bit of functionality contained in it, and that's what my approach will provide. A development of Plain English Programming would do the same because it programs everything directly without training any imperfect nets.

Plain English Programming may be able to become full NLP if enough people interact with it and extend the range of phrases it can handle, so while it may only handle a subset of English today, that is not an inherent restriction on it. It can keep improving as people write code to support more words. For that reason, it is arguably not a step towards NLP because it arguably already is NLP. We will only find out when enough code is written to handle all words an all possible uses of them. Maybe it will run into difficulties with ambiguities, but little additions to the program could fix that. AGI will study Plain English Programming in the future to see what it could have done if the world had got behind it in 2006.


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 Post subject: Re: The approaches about natural language programming
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:11 pm 
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QuantumRobin wrote:
Maybe I will find other people who is trying to create the natural language programming or human-language-level programming.

You should wait until there's been some significant advance before bothering people about this subject here again. You won't find anyone new here that you haven't already reached, and you have nothing new to tell them. Is there any forum you've posted to where you're getting a positive reaction? If so, post about it some more there and see if you can annoy them too.

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 Post subject: Re: The approaches about natural language programming
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:18 pm 
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DavidCooper wrote:
QuantumRobin wrote:
Maybe I will find other people who is trying to create the natural language programming or human-language-level programming.

You should wait until there's been some significant advance before bothering people about this subject here again. You won't find anyone new here that you haven't already reached, and you have nothing new to tell them. Is there any forum you've posted to where you're getting a positive reaction? If so, post about it some more there and see if you can annoy them too.


David Cooper,

Maybe I will not find in a forum other people who is trying to create the natural language programming or human-language-level programming.

Solar,

Do you agree with the David Cooper's response that he posted in this topic?

If not, why you don't agree with the David Cooper's response that he posted in this topic?


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 Post subject: Re: The approaches about natural language programming
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:20 pm 
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QuantumRobin wrote:
Generally speaking, maybe you'll find that people "brought up" in the C-language tradition are less amenable to the idea of natural language programming than people "brought up" in the BASIC/COBOL/Pascal tradition.


Here's a counter example for you: My first programming language was Pascal, and I think NLP is as useful as underwater basket weaving.

Why do you think a forum of OS programmers (i.e. practitioners of the trade) would contain people interested in such a theoretical and far-away topic? And why would you continue to think so after having been rebuffed twice already?


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 Post subject: Re: The approaches about natural language programming
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:24 am 
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nullplan wrote:
QuantumRobin wrote:
Generally speaking, maybe you'll find that people "brought up" in the C-language tradition are less amenable to the idea of natural language programming than people "brought up" in the BASIC/COBOL/Pascal tradition.


Here's a counter example for you: My first programming language was Pascal, and I think NLP is as useful as underwater basket weaving.

Why do you think a forum of OS programmers (i.e. practitioners of the trade) would contain people interested in such a theoretical and far-away topic? And why would you continue to think so after having been rebuffed twice already?


nullplan,

Thanks for your response!

The Solar deleted the other response that he posted in this topic.


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