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 Post subject: Language resources page-Good or bad idea?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:57 pm 
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I think most of us at some point were curious newbies and some more or less knowledgeable people may have stumbled upon this site because they were curiously Googling "how to create an operating system" but didn't have the idea that making a real OS was as technically involved or complex as it was or realized but thought they didn't have the right knowledge.

Do you think it is a good or terrible idea to provide a page (on here or more likely on the Wiki) explaining guides to learning C or other "high-level" languages? Like the 80x86 Assembly language resources page on here. Or does this deviate too much from the "elite" or professional mission preference of this site? I also note that there seems to be some specific "nuance" with learning these languages if one dreamed to eventually become an OSDever judging from some of the discussions and arguments on this forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Language resources page-Good or bad idea?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:32 am 
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If you think it a good idea you are free to create the appropriate Wiki page.


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 Post subject: Re: Language resources page-Good or bad idea?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:28 am 
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I'm not so sure.

There is some form of consensus that solid knowledge of the languages and (most of) the tools should be considered required knowledge:

Required Knowledge wrote:
5. Programming experience: Learning about programming with an OS project is considered a bad idea. Not only should you know the language in which you will be developing inside out, you should also be familiar with version control, debugging, etc. In short, you should have written quite a few user-space programs in that language successfully before trying OS development.


If there is a "special angle" to the languages involved when it comes to OS development -- and I doubt there is, other than an eye for detail that is unfortunately become uncommon in today's "just make it run" mindset -- then it should be learned after you familiarized yourself with the language and its tools in user-space programming. IMHO.

As such, I feel that osdev.org is the wrong place to give advice on how to go about learning a new language, with the possible exception of Assembly (which has become rather uncommon outside a very small niche). There are many good resources out there for e.g. C and C++, and I don't think we can add much to that other than noise ("I think this one's good!" -- "I think this one's better!").

IMHO, the overall impression should be, "OSDev is the place to go if you know your stuff and want to go about this particular type of project", not "OSDev is a good place to go for all things programming"... because that is not the type of discussion we want to have here. Or do we?

{shrug}

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 Post subject: Re: Language resources page-Good or bad idea?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:50 pm 
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Solar wrote:
I'm not so sure.

There is some form of consensus that solid knowledge of the languages and (most of) the tools should be considered required knowledge:

Required Knowledge wrote:
5. Programming experience: Learning about programming with an OS project is considered a bad idea. Not only should you know the language in which you will be developing inside out, you should also be familiar with version control, debugging, etc. In short, you should have written quite a few user-space programs in that language successfully before trying OS development.


If there is a "special angle" to the languages involved when it comes to OS development -- and I doubt there is, other than an eye for detail that is unfortunately become uncommon in today's "just make it run" mindset -- then it should be learned after you familiarized yourself with the language and its tools in user-space programming. IMHO.

As such, I feel that osdev.org is the wrong place to give advice on how to go about learning a new language, with the possible exception of Assembly (which has become rather uncommon outside a very small niche). There are many good resources out there for e.g. C and C++, and I don't think we can add much to that other than noise ("I think this one's good!" -- "I think this one's better!").

IMHO, the overall impression should be, "OSDev is the place to go if you know your stuff and want to go about this particular type of project", not "OSDev is a good place to go for all things programming"... because that is not the type of discussion we want to have here. Or do we?

{shrug}


Thank you for your input here. Just I brought it up because one of the reasons is that C in particular has the "gotchas" that may catch some people off-guard when trying to use the language well. That leads to some confusion.


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