OSDev.org

The Place to Start for Operating System Developers
It is currently Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:28 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: How evil is microsoft?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:13 pm
Posts: 23
Microsoft is buying GitHub, 15K project is migrating from GitHub to GitLab, really guys?
I saw Klange's os migrating to GitLab, I wonder how evil is Microsoft, why 'most' Linux devs hate Microsoft so much that they are leaving GitHub when they knew Microsoft is buying it?

Tbh, this shows how Microsoft is considered a 'Villain' to most Linux users....

_________________
Developing ZeroX Operating System;
I code C++ so much that I am ending English Statements & Replies with semi-colon instead of dot;


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How evil is microsoft?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:44 pm
Posts: 16
I wouldn't call Microsoft evil, imo that should be reserved for companies that ruin people's lives, like Nestle, or exploit the environment, like Nestle, and not those that ruined businesses in the 90s. Microsoft is a massive, fractured organization as shown in the following:

Image

where one single word can't be accurately applied to the entire thing. You can certainly make the case for how certain factions are doing poorly, but generally their 'DevDiv' faction has been consistently nailing it for a while now, and I imagine they would have some influence in this. I think the mass exodus is a bit of an overreaction. Microsoft has been spending a lot of time and resources trying to build developer good-will. Sadya et al have been slowly adjusting the company's course and changing their internal corporate culture. They know that they are bleeding developers and need to change to bring them back, they know that there are many people who will never forget the 90's, they know that they have to tread carefully and not screw things up. Does it make any logical sense to spend over $7 billion and then literally throw everything away by doing something to ruin GitHub, or to make people lose trust in GitHub? It would be corporate suicide. I predict any changes will be very boring, very corporate-speak filled, and be limited to "Oh we integrated GitHub with X".

_________________
Image is my operating system.

"...not because [it is] easy, but because [it is] hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of [my] energies and skills..."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How evil is microsoft?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:30 pm 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:54 pm
Posts: 124
Location: Adelaide, Australia
While it's fair to be suspicious if MS, particularly with regard to free and open software, which they've never really supported (hardly unique to them). I do think the hatred of MS is vastly over the top. They engaged in some monopolistic practises in the past, but they got rightfully slapped down for it and they really haven't done anything nasty for a while.

The "Linux dev" crowd has a very vocal segment that seems to think software and OSs aren't tools to take or leave, but important aspects of who they are as people. As a result they feel the need to assign moral value to OS usage, and by extension the companies that make them. Like political party hacks who don't care about policy or philosophy, just defending their "teams" failings while celebrating the failings of their opponents.

<rant>
Some companies do truly evil things, however even these are usually things that all companies in their field will do, and so defining the company as "evil" seems to me to be missing the point somewhat. Companies are no more capable of being evil than of being good, if they can be considered independent actors at all then they should be thought of as sociopathic. They are incapable, by design, of empathy or compassion. The only metric that a company is truly measured on is profit, and there are always more efficient ways of generating profits by exploiting people than there are by serving them. Look, for example, at Apple. Remember how Apple got blasted for a while in the media for using Foxconn to assemble some part of a iPhone. The thing is, almost all consumer electronics companies have Foxconn, or a similar organisation, in their supply chain. Is Apple evil for using Foxconn to assemble iPhones? Is Gigabyte evil for using them to assemble motherboards? Of course not, Apple got blasted because of the juxtaposition of their exploitative manufacturing practices with their trendy, "woke" image. This isn't to downplay what they do, which is horrific, but I think it hurts more than helps to hold onto the idea that companies have morals and personalities like people, that they can be good or evil.
</rant>


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How evil is microsoft?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:36 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:38 pm
Posts: 544
Location: Victoria, Canada
My gods some of you Linux people. There are much bigger actual problems to get uppity about.

Microsoft is a decent company with a flawed past that has gotten really damn good in the past few years overall. They're directly responsible for the software that powered the personal computer revolution, and yes, that means the processes and improvements that led to your precious do-no-wrong morally-just free software operating system environment.

It astounds me that Free Software people scream hatred at Microsoft every time they remember Redmond, WA is a city that exists while simultaneously claiming to be the good guys in some neolithic-grade shit-disturbing competition that only one side is engaging in. And yet the great evil continues to open source major parts of its previously closed proprietary systems, tools, and even entire environments for some reason. Clearly, it must be some nefarious plot.

_________________
In our business, a one in a million chance is next Tuesday.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How evil is microsoft?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:11 pm
Posts: 1
Kazinsal wrote:
My gods some of you Linux people. There are much bigger actual problems to get uppity about.

Microsoft is a decent company with a flawed past that has gotten really damn good in the past few years overall. They're directly responsible for the software that powered the personal computer revolution, and yes, that means the processes and improvements that led to your precious do-no-wrong morally-just free software operating system environment.

It astounds me that Free Software people scream hatred at Microsoft every time they remember Redmond, WA is a city that exists while simultaneously claiming to be the good guys in some neolithic-grade shit-disturbing competition that only one side is engaging in. And yet the great evil continues to open source major parts of its previously closed proprietary systems, tools, and even entire environments for some reason. Clearly, it must be some nefarious plot.


There are companies like Microsoft that charge for their good software. Then there are some companies that provide free software but they come with adware, malware, and sometimes ransomware. We've got to decide what to choose. No doubt, there is some good free software available. But you can't expect constant updates and upgrades if the developer is not getting something in return.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How evil is microsoft?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:40 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:00 pm
Posts: 1991
Location: USA (and Australia)
It was different when I was a broke student, but now as an employed adult I don't mind paying for software any more than I mind paying for a good meal at a restaurant, paying to watch a movie in the theatre, or many of the other goods and services I value more than the money I'm exchanging for them.

Of course, nobody likes to be overcharged or feel like they are being ripped off, and there is plenty of high quality OSS out there.

It would be great in a post scarcity world when people didn't need money to survive.

But, I feel like there are people out there that believe all software should be free and refuse to pay for any software ever (but believe in paying for hardware, food, houses, etc.) This seems akin to the people who live in the suburbs are used to never paying to park their car the drive to the city where you have to pay and then say "HOW DARE THEY CHARGE? I WILL NEVER PAY FOR SOMETHING I CAN GET FOR FREE ELSEWHERE!!!"

_________________
My OS is Perception. (1 2)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How evil is microsoft?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:19 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:00 am
Posts: 8515
Location: At his keyboard!
Hi,

MessiahAndrw wrote:
But, I feel like there are people out there that believe all software should be free and refuse to pay for any software ever (but believe in paying for hardware, food, houses, etc.) This seems akin to the people who live in the suburbs are used to never paying to park their car the drive to the city where you have to pay and then say "HOW DARE THEY CHARGE? I WILL NEVER PAY FOR SOMETHING I CAN GET FOR FREE ELSEWHERE!!!"


Ironically, the popular "free" OSs are not free at all. For example; for Linux, most of the development is done by large companies who build the cost of Linux development into the prices of everything else (e.g. every time someone buys hardware from Intel they're charged a little bit extra and that little bit extra goes towards paying for Intel's developers to work on Linux, every company that has a support contract with Redhat charges a tiny little bit extra and that goes towards paying for Redhat's developers to work on Linux, etc). The end result is that Linux is funded by millions of "hidden micro-taxes" being paid by everyone.

For an economy based on capitalism where (in theory) consumer choice determines profit and encourages better products, services and prices while discouraging worse products, services and prices; "free" takes consumer choice out of the equation (e.g. people pay the hidden micro-taxes that fund Linux development whether they like Linux or not). In this way it could be argued that "free" is a nasty/unethical anti-competitive practice - a cancer that ruins fair competition.

Of course OSs that actually are free do exist (e.g. the BSDs, where development is funded by generosity alone), but they're also one of the biggest victims - struggling to compete against "free" for recognition/popularity and developers. It's fairly safe to assume every commercial OS has been effected by the unfair competition of "free" too (once upon a time there were lots of OSs, like HP-UX, Solaris, BeOS, Simbian, ... - all dead now).


Cheers,

Brendan

_________________
For all things; perfection is, and will always remain, impossible to achieve in practice. However; by striving for perfection we create things that are as perfect as practically possible. Let the pursuit of perfection be our guide.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group