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 Post subject: Re: Probable quantity of machine code programmers and Assemb
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 10:38 am 
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MichaelFarthing wrote:
Please everyone: Cotton on to this... whatever he/she/it is!

I wouldn't be so quick to write him off. It may be someone running a really bad chatbot and cheating by overriding it frequently, but a more likely explanation is autism. He may or may not have been diagnosed with it (many people with autism never are noticed if they're sufficiently high-functioning), but either way, we should err on the side of caution and be patient with him. I had an autistic friend at school who asked lots of repeated questions in the exact same manner - it always took a long time for the answers to register, but he always got there in the end. He wasn't diagnosed at the time, but only found out later, after getting himself into a high-level job in a team running a nuclear power station - he is very capable despite the disability, and anyone else with the same problem should be helped and encouraged to overcome the extra difficulties that have been placed in their way.

@manhobby

I'm the least qualified person here to advise you about specific high-level programming languages because: (A) I don't use any, (B) I have never done any research into the advantages and disadvantages of any of them relative to any of the others, and (C) I haven't studied which languages are in demand in the jobs market or which are becoming more popular in university courses.

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 Post subject: Re: Probable quantity of machine code programmers and Assemb
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 11:20 am 
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DavidCooper wrote:
MichaelFarthing wrote:
Please everyone: Cotton on to this... whatever he/she/it is!

I wouldn't be so quick to write him off. It may be someone running a really bad chatbot and cheating by overriding it frequently, but a more likely explanation is autism.


@DavidCooper,

I am not running chatbot!

Please, sorry me.


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 Post subject: Re: Probable quantity of machine code programmers and Assemb
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 2:02 pm 
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DavidCooper wrote:
manhobby wrote:
You did not answer a question about a statement of Andrew Tanenbaum.

Sua pergunta já foi respondida duas vezes; uma vez por mim e a outra por StudlyCaps. Eu disse: "Porque ele poderia afirmar que eu não estou fazendo programação pura de código de máquina porque eu automatizei essa parte do processo."


Quote:
You said that is arguably wrong the following affirmation of Andrew Tanenbaum:

"The machine language programmer must always work with the numerical values of the addresses".

Why Andrew Tanenbaum says that the machine language programmer must always work with the numerical values of the addresses?

Ele fez uma suposição de que um programador de código de máquina deveria escrever os endereços e distâncias de salto diretamente, em vez de usar qualquer sistema para automatizar essa parte do processo. Indiscutivelmente, isso é correto se você está escrevendo 100% em código de máquina, mas também é indiscutivelmente errado porque endereços e distâncias de salto não são instruções.


@DavidCooper,

If someone uses Google Translate to read the translation of your answer I quoted above to English, perhaps will not understand part of your answer because Google Translate does not translate everything correctly.

Please write your answer also in English to share the answer to those that do not understand Brazilian Portuguese.

@DavidCooper,

You will write your answer also in English to share the answer to those that do not understand Brazilian Portuguese?


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 Post subject: Re: Probable quantity of machine code programmers and Assemb
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 12:05 pm 
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manhobby wrote:
Please write your answer also in English to share the answer to those that do not understand Brazilian Portuguese.

He made an assumption that a machine code programmer should write addresses and jump distances directly, rather than using any system to automate that part of the process. Arguably, this is correct if you are writing 100% machine code, but it is also arguably wrong because addresses and jump distances are not instructions.

GT translates "indiscutivelmente" as "arguably" the first time and "indisputably" the second, which has a very different meaning. My pocket-size Portuguese dictionary doesn't have "arguably" in it, but I've just tried an online dictionary and it turns "arguably" into "discutivelmente" instead, whereas GT consistantly turns "arguably" into "indiscutivelmente", and does so in multiple contexts - I tested it that way before posting that message because the word was new to me, and then trusted it to be correct. Normally when GT makes a mistake, it changes the translation when you change the context, but in this case it is consistently wrong, and that caught me out, although I would expect anyone reading it to be able to read the intended meaning out of it regardless.

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 Post subject: Re: Probable quantity of machine code programmers and Assemb
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 1:12 pm 
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@DavidCooper,

Many thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Probable quantity of machine code programmers and Assemb
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:09 am 
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Wich are the high level programming languages that has reason to learn to find job?

Wich are the high level programming languages that has no reason to learn to find job?

I am asking these questions because I want discover the demand amongst employers for all high level programming languages because I want to be employed to be a professional programmer.

Schol-R-LEA, Brendan and simeonz, maybe you were the most detailed in the others topics I posted here in the OS Dev Forums.

Schol-R-LEA, Brendan and simeonz, please, answer this topic.


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 Post subject: Re: Probable quantity of machine code programmers and Assemb
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 10:44 am 
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It looks as if you've had all the advice here that you're going to get on that question. Maybe you should try asking about this at a site like Quora. Your question should be something like this:-

Quote:
Hi,

I'd like to work as a programmer, so I'm looking for some expert advice about which programming languages I should concentrate on learning in order to maximise my chances of finding work. Which languages are considered essential, and which are the best ones to add to the list if I have time to learn more? It would be really useful if you could list the ones that you think are most worthwhile in order of importance.

By the way, the languages I've already worked with are ... [list them here].

Thanks


The part where I've written "... [list them here]" needs to be replaced with a list of the languages that you (manhobby) already know - this will make it clear that you are already serious about wanting to work as a programmer rather than someone hopeless who's never done any programming.

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 Post subject: Re: Probable quantity of machine code programmers and Assemb
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:44 am 
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DavidCooper wrote:
It looks as if you've had all the advice here that you're going to get on that question. Maybe you should try asking about this at a site like Quora. Your question should be something like this:-

Quote:
Hi,

I'd like to work as a programmer, so I'm looking for some expert advice about which programming languages I should concentrate on learning in order to maximise my chances of finding work. Which languages are considered essential, and which are the best ones to add to the list if I have time to learn more? It would be really useful if you could list the ones that you think are most worthwhile in order of importance.

By the way, the languages I've already worked with are ... [list them here].

Thanks


The part where I've written "... [list them here]" needs to be replaced with a list of the languages that you (manhobby) already know - this will make it clear that you are already serious about wanting to work as a programmer rather than someone hopeless who's never done any programming.


@DavidCooper,

Many thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Probable quantity of machine code programmers and Assemb
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:29 pm 
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Schol-R-LEA wrote:
manhobby wrote:

@Schol-R-LEA

Andrew Tanenbaum lied?


For all intents and purposes, no. He may not have been literally accurate, as there is no way to actually know for certain (and there are always wingnuts, specialists, and hobbyists who do things like that anyway), but the numbers are so small that they are negligible. His statement was basically accurate, because for anyone who isn't doing so either for fun or for some exceeding specialized purpose (as is the case for DavidCooper), programming in machine language - or even doing extensive programming in assembly language, for things that don't need it - is stupid.

To repeat something I've said before: modern programming is all about increasing levels of abstraction. Machine code has no abstraction at all, and bare assembly language (i.e., without any kind of macros or other structuring) has only minimal abstraction. Using either of them means discarding nearly everything we've learned in sixty years' of improvements in the methods of program development and software engineering.

I have to second the question which Zaval, and several others, have already asked: what are you trying to accomplish by asking these questions? We've already told you that this is a dead end with regards to professional programming. If you want to learn machine code or assembly language programming out of curiosity or as a hobby, go ahead and do it (Hell, there are probably some here who would help you with that, and there several more specialized message boards where they certainly would), but there is no reason for you to be belaboring this if you intent is to find work.




Schol-R-LEA, Brendan, simeonz, please, answer the following questions:

Wich are the high level programming languages that has reason to learn to find job?

Wich are the high level programming languages that has no reason to learn to find job?

Schol-R-LEA, Brendan, simeonz, you will answer this questions?


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