Bare with me, this is a long thread, I know. But I think it may actually be important, and since I spent a lot of time writing this, I hope is is read by at least a few people.
I really like the idea of having a forum designed strictly for newbies. Where the whole point is to have "Why don't this w0rk" questions asked. Of course, this makes it possible for people to simply ignore that forum if they wish, or look at the questions if they want.
The other thing is to moderate the posts of new users...several options below: A. They cannot post for x amount of time. B. They can only post in the beginner forum for x amount of time, or they can appeal to moderators to lift the 'ban' if they are already experienced. C. Some other restriction.
There could be a progression on their "ability to post" as time goes on, and as they show better skills. This would, of course, require moderators to be more involved with the new users. Many options exist. I do not believe that they should pass a test or anything, because (for example) when I started there would be no way I could pass a test for OSdev. The new users should be monitored strictly and restricted for an amount of time, however, their posts should not be locked until: A. The problem is solved. B. They are too stupid to figure it out (in which case we tell the politely to research, and lock the thread. C. Their question is about the rules of the forum.
To elaborate on point C: They will soon realize that their posting is restricted. They will either attempt to ask in the beginner forum (in which case the thread is deleted) or they send a PM to a mod (who refers them to the rules).
The problems are, of course, that this probably wont work. Simply because people are to ignorant to deal with the reality that this place is for people who know what they are talking about. Also, the moderators would have to be more involved, and their job would be much more stressful dealing with idiots all the time...
I like the idea of restriction with chance for appeal. And a new subforum for beginner questions. I also realize that this has been suggested before, and some of the things I've said are already occurring or are in place! I simply wanted to lay it out like that.
And now for something completely different.
I am sad to see Solar go. I hope he comes back. I also (while skimming this thread) noticed talk of "revolution". Come on. Really? All thats going on is people talking about what they don't like. If nothing happens, we are back to the start again, and probably damaged this forum even more than noobs. If something does happen, it wont be a revolution. It will be a change. Revolution is too dramatic.
Seriously, everyone is a bit too angry. Look at yourselves. You are arguing over the organization of 1's and 0's, controlled by people you will never see, who you don't know. Ah computers - badly designed methods of yelling at others over badly designed protocols accessed by badly designed machines. Gotta love it.
Normally, I would request a thread lock. I'm not going to do that here, because it seems like this thread may actually go somewhere instead of derailing like a train as the past threads like this did.
In regards to the wiki: Yes, it is good. Yes, it needs more. There is so much to know about OSdev that it will never be complete. But we can try, we can try. The wiki is not designed for beginner programmers to understand, which is why we get so many RTFM threads. The other reason is that noobs don't read the rules. How do we get them to read the rules better and follow them?
@JamesM: While I agree with your reopening that GPF thread, I believe that Combuster's responses were (while rude), acceptable, Simply because they encouraged the OP to think for himself a little. Whether that failed or not, I will not say here, because it is irrelevant. What is important is that the thread still went nowhere. It doesn't mean that it failed - for all I know, the OP may have solved the problem. However, because it didn't go anywhere, I don't see any reason for it to be in the main OS Development forum. It should be in a subforum dedicated to posts like that; the ones that are noobish questions should be b themselves. Please, both of you, stop fighting, we wont get anywhere like that. Combuster: Your responses were in place, and fine. JamesM: Reopening that thread was fine, and your response was good, and probably helpful to the OP.
I suppose my problem is that I agree with most everyone while hating everything. I hate noobs. But they should be given a chance (subforum). I hate RTFM responses off-the-bat, but they do have their place. This could be solved with posting restrictions. Banning users doesn't condone learning, but it does have it's place.
Now, this is a long post, and my hand hurts. I know that I rarely reply to posts in the OS Dev forum, and I want to apologize for not being more useful in that regard. I simply don't see many threads that I want to reply to. So why do I keep coming back? It's because of the community and the interesting threads. Unfortunately, if we don't do something fast to keep the community together, it will split, and I will loose a reason for being here. If we don't do something soon to fix the noobish questions, and they take over the majority of posts, there goes the second reason. As much as I like this forum, if those two things go, what is left?
I also realize that there are members where who's voices carry much more weight than my own. I do not consider myself to be an experienced programmer. I believe that I am good at it, but not nearly experienced enough for OSdev. Yet, I still do it? And, incidentally, OSdev is what taught me to program well. In many regards I should not be programming an OS - I barely know asm, I've been programming C for only a couple years, I have had my past problems on these forums, I have made an @$$ of myself several times. But I keep coming back because I enjoy it. I really hope that those who do have the weight associated with their status (unfortunately, we lost one - Solar) think about this place, and make it better for those who deserve the great diversity and interestingness of these forums (and yes, I am saying that there are people who should be here, and people who don't. But not for simply skill reasons - I think I deserve to be here, though others may disagree, mostly because of how much I like to do OSdev [and yes, I can program...heh]).
They are the ones who will have the final say. I hope they make good decisions.
-JL
_________________ SeaOS: Adding VT-x, networking, and ARM support dbittman on IRC, @danielbittman on twitter https://dbittman.github.io
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