OSDev.org

The Place to Start for Operating System Developers
It is currently Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:52 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Oh PLEASE! Remove crappy forum "features"
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:04 am 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 202
I tried to search for "D programming language". The answer was:

"The following words in your search query were ignored because they are too common words: language programming d.
You must specify at least one word to search for. Each word must consist of at least 3 characters and must not contain more than 14 characters excluding wildcards."

Great, no?

JJ


Last edited by JJeronimo on Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oh PLEASE! Remove crappy forum features.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:38 pm 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:47 pm
Posts: 1598
Location: New Hampshire, USA
64 and 64-bit get thrown out as well. I think the filtering parameters are set a little too strict.

_________________
Website: https://Joscor.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oh PLEASE! Remove crappy forum "features"
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:32 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:46 pm
Posts: 671
Location: Texas
It is not a feature I added in. PHPBB doesn't search on single letters, the search database would be huge. We'll be adding a Google based search feature soon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oh PLEASE! Remove crappy forum "features"
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:53 am 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 202
chase wrote:
It is not a feature I added in. PHPBB doesn't search on single letters, the search database would be huge. We'll be adding a Google based search feature soon.


Not if it searched only for whole words.
And also, it was not only "d" but also "programming" and "language".

JJ


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oh PLEASE! Remove crappy forum "features"
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:46 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:01 pm
Posts: 7430
Location: Germany
I could picture where phpBB looks at the search index, sees that it would get thousands of positives, and stubbornly refuses to attempt displaying them for performance reasons. This is only a single webserver, after all, not a Google cluster.

If you really need to find, why not try "d programming language site:forum.osdev.org"? Works beautifully. Clicky.

_________________
Every good solution is obvious once you've found it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oh PLEASE! Remove crappy forum "features"
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:50 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:47 pm
Posts: 1598
Location: New Hampshire, USA
nice google skills.
that will deffinately come in handy.

_________________
Website: https://Joscor.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oh PLEASE! Remove crappy forum "features"
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:35 pm 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 202
Solar wrote:
If you really need to find, why not try "d programming language site:forum.osdev.org"? Works beautifully. Clicky.

Thanks.
Anyway, I was trying to see whether anyone had already to do kernel land programming in D, but looks like the language is too new and too complex (aka runtime dependent) for anyone to consider the idea.

JJ


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oh PLEASE! Remove crappy forum "features"
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:43 pm 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 2:04 am
Posts: 250
Location: United States
Or perhaps unheard of. WTF is D? I never heard of it? What compiler compiles it? It needs a runtime... lame! I rather write code in VB if I am going to use a runtime environment.

_________________
Free energy is indeed evil for it absorbs the light.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oh PLEASE! Remove crappy forum "features"
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:20 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:01 pm
Posts: 7430
Location: Germany
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/

It's supported by GCC.

And if you are opposed to runtimes - what do you think "crt0.o" is for? :twisted:

_________________
Every good solution is obvious once you've found it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oh PLEASE! Remove crappy forum "features"
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:35 pm 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:42 pm
Posts: 224
Well, it's not really supported by GCC since the GDC front-end is maintained separately by another community.

I myself sometimes prefer D over C++ and C because it's really a clean and well thought-out language that's based on C++'s design but without some of its kludges. The first time I tried working with it and found out there was no preprocessor :shock: I almost gave up. (For those interested, here's how D deals with these issues: http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/pretod.html)

However, the main reasons I think D will never be half as widespread as C and C++ is because it's not supported by GCC (the latest version of GDC only compiles with versions up to 4.0.x IIRC, and that's with some patching), and so I couldn't get a D cross-compiler to work for the x86_64 targets, it's got two main libraries (Tango and Phobos) that compete with each other (but that's still MUCH better than the current state with 'standard' C libraries), and having to implement a fair amount of a runtime (i.e. garbage collection), all of which were the main reasons I gave up on trying to use D for my OS and reverting, not to C++, but to C. If anyone would be willing to give me some pointers on getting GDC to work successfully so I can program my OS in D, I'd really appreciate that.

And about the search issues, I completely agree. We should replace the search feature with a Google Custom Search form!

_________________
"Sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oh PLEASE! Remove crappy forum "features"
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:02 am 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 202
Zenith wrote:
The first time I tried working with it and found out there was no preprocessor :shock: I almost gave up. (For those interested, here's how D deals with these issues: http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/pretod.html)

I think designing a modern programming language with a preprocessor is plain dumb. What does the preprocessor do that cannot be already accomplished by "const" qualifiers, inline functions, a fairly good importing feature and an optimizing compiler? The first 3 are just syntax, and the last one is commonplace nowadays.
Quoting the ReactOS Wiki about Rbuild (their custom build system), "string pasting is evil".
In particular, C macros force you into lazy evaluation and a bizarre form of dynamic typing, mixed with the nightmare of having to use tons of parenthesis so that the compiler does not misunderstand the expressions. That's not everything! Don't you know that dirty trick of the do{...}while(0) that allows you to "call" a macro as the only instruction of an if (in the line just before the else)?

Quote:
and having to implement a fair amount of a runtime (i.e. garbage collection), all of which were the main reasons I gave up on trying to use D for my OS and reverting, not to C++, but to C.

Are you sure you really need to implement garbage collection if you only use local variables?
Perhaps if you abstain from creating class instances the heap in not used. And so, you can use pointers to implement the CPU initialization and the memory allocator (I suppose the compiler automatically handles the reference counting and calls the deallocation function when needed), and finally call the "main" part of the kernel, that could use the language normally to a great extent.
I don't know if this makes sense. I've not programmed in D very much.

Quote:
If anyone would be willing to give me some pointers on getting GDC to work successfully so I can program my OS in D, I'd really appreciate that.

Looks like you were the first one that tried something like that.

JJ


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oh PLEASE! Remove crappy forum "features"
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:21 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:37 am
Posts: 140
Location: Canada
Quote:
I think designing a modern programming language with a preprocessor is plain dumb. What does the preprocessor do that cannot be already accomplished by "const" qualifiers, inline functions, a fairly good importing feature and an optimizing compiler? The first 3 are just syntax, and the last one is commonplace nowadays.

Why take out a feature? I can understand avoiding a "shoot yourself in the foot" feature in a language like Java. But in a system development language?

Let's say that you are working on a feature that absolutely needs speed... Would you really want to do a branch at run time rather than just letting the compiler handle it? Again, I agree with you in many cases, but not all.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oh PLEASE! Remove crappy forum "features"
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:45 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:01 pm
Posts: 7430
Location: Germany
While this is certainly OT...

C++ has never been about "cleanliness". It has taken an old, battered, but well-proven vehicle (VW Beetle - sorry, I meant "C" of course), and added servo brakes, spoilers, and one hell of a turbocharged engine. The result is something akin to the Audi S1 Quattro - ugly as hell, a ***** to drive, but boy does it fly in the hands of a pro...

Yep, I'm in love. 8)

_________________
Every good solution is obvious once you've found it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oh PLEASE! Remove crappy forum "features"
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:23 pm 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 202
stephenj wrote:
Let's say that you are working on a feature that absolutely needs speed... Would you really want to do a branch at run time rather than just letting the compiler handle it? Again, I agree with you in many cases, but not all.


What C macros do is often called inlining. Only, the C preprocessor does that in a dumb, antiquated and unsafe way.

JJ


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oh PLEASE! Remove crappy forum "features"
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:32 pm 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:55 am
Posts: 524
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
That isn't allways true. There are some things (like conditional compilation) that can't be done w/o the preprocessor, at least not in a sane way. For example, I have a #define that changes the level of SSE support the OS expects from the processor at boot time. #define is also nice when you need to define a lot of numerical constants.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group