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Should the moderators take more action against aggressive forum members?
Poll ended at Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:55 am
Yes 58%  58%  [ 11 ]
No 37%  37%  [ 7 ]
I don't know/I don't care 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 19
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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Moderating aggressive forum members
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:09 am 
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I'll just point out that since this thread was started, the offender has had an exemplary behaviour. He is engaging in a constructive way with other people. There has been no insults and not demeaning behaviour.

It seems to suggest that calling out the bad behaviour and discussing it was the right thing to do.

I am happy to see this. There are a only upsides for everyone in a community where people respect each others.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Moderating aggressive forum members
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:11 pm 
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I did not wanted to post in this thread, but there's one thing I would like to reflect to.
Korona wrote:
Technical statements might be controversial but they should not be moderated. If I claim that 1+2=5, that's within my right. I am wrong but I should not punished for my ignorance. However, if I state "1+2=5 and the reason why you cannot believe this is that you are all pathetic apes", the latter part of that sentence certainly should be moderated.
In general I agree, however I also think that statements like "1+2=5" should not be allowed. Not a ban, but at least a moderator saying "fact check: fake" would be very much needed. Since moderators aren't doing this, it is left to the forum members to do the fact checks.

I think perceiving forum members doing the fact checks as aggressive or offensive is the root of the problem, not that someone does the fact checks. If it were a moderator saying "fake", there would be no problem, everybody would accept that. But since it's another forum member with the same rights saying so, some might think he is asking for a flame war, when in reality he doesn't, he just said "fact check: fake" for all of us. I think we as a community should encourage fact checks for all of our sake and build some kind of etiquette on how to handle those in a civilized manner (by not thinking it's a personal attack for example).

(I'd like to point out while it's not perfect, but in general this community handles these things well. Yes, there are occassional confrontations, yes there are flame wars sometimes (we are only humans after all), but except a few cases those are mostly civilized technical debates as they should be. On OSDev there are already a lot fewer flame wars as on any other similar forums, maybe that's why when there is it makes the news.)

Cheers,
bzt


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Moderating aggressive forum members
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:49 am 
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Korona wrote:
(If the dysfunctional people thread was created as a reaction to the Rust thread, I am not sure what the poster wants to imply.)
I note that the OP in that thread, and this, has not answered any of the points raised in either of them. Making controversial posts, and then not partaking in the resulting debate would be defined by many as classic trolling. Perhaps the moderators should delete, or immediately lock, such threads?

TBH, the whole content of this thread would be better addressed privately to the moderators via PMs. And if they decide not to take further action, then the referee's decision is final. To make it a poll, rather than a discussion, is just poring more petrol on the fire.


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Moderating aggressive forum members
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:28 am 
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bzt wrote:
In general I agree, however I also think that statements like "1+2=5" should not be allowed. Not a ban, but at least a moderator saying "fact check: fake" would be very much needed. Since moderators aren't doing this, it is left to the forum members to do the fact checks.

That could provoke discussions with the mods though.

However, I do think that a reminder "Hey guys, the discussion is getting heated. Person X and Y has stated their position already, you're unlikely to convince them. Let's just go back to the original topic." can work wonders (and it's best if such a reminder is posted before there are 15 posts of ad-hominem attacks).

@iansjack: I am not a fan of discussing moderation issues in private (unless they affect yourself ofc). But it might be a good idea for the participants of a discussion to resolve their "personal" issues in private.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Moderating aggressive forum members
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:54 pm 
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Korona wrote:
That could provoke discussions with the mods though.
But that would be a different issue than having an unwanted and long, heated discussion with another forum member. A moderator's opinion would always be more significant, and should ask for a PoC and in lack of that simply put an end to the discussion. Working out an etiquette that requires PoC to see who is right could stop this easily, the problem I think is, people are not used to PoCs (for several reasons, but let's not go into that). If a statement is in question, then the poster should be asked to demonstrate with working examples, simple as that, no hard feelings. This for example works great in hacker groups, if you say you have found a vulnerability without a PoC, everybody would laugh at you and nobody would take you seriously. On the other hand if you can demonstrate what you're saying, then nobody questions that and they accept no matter how ridiculous it may seem. Simple, no flames nor heated discussions (on technical and security matters of course, there are other things that can provoke flame wars).

Korona wrote:
However, I do think that a reminder "Hey guys, the discussion is getting heated. Person X and Y has stated their position already, you're unlikely to convince them. Let's just go back to the original topic." can work wonders (and it's best if such a reminder is posted before there are 15 posts of ad-hominem attacks).
I absolutely agree. A friendly warning from a moderator could avoid 99.999% of these discussions. I admit, sometimes it would be great to get these, because although I have no offensive intentions, I can forget about myself and only focus on the facts and forget about the other forum member's feelings. it's not that I want hurt them or anything.

Cheers,
bzt


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