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Clowns on OSDev
https://forum.osdev.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31910		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  teeuwen [ Fri May 12, 2017 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Clowns on OSDev
I'm not a long time member of this forum but the topic I'll be talking about has very rapidly become apparent and I simply felt like bringing it up (because why not?).

I'm talking about a (probably big) groups of members of this forum who are going around talking about their "operating system" like it's their brainchild. When in reality it is just 300 lines of code consisting of 200 lines of content copied from the wiki and 100 lines of fancy version number ascii art, loading screens, welcome messages and blue screens of death. Don't these people realize how cringy the content is they're posting?
The worst thing is that some of they are actually under the impression that they're the next Einstein! Or, Bill Gates I should say, because it doesn't end there: fancy company names, incorporated this and corporate that, might as well throw a trademark on there (this is probably also a bunch of poor kids who don't know what they're talking about or doing in the first place).
No actually, you know what the worst thing is? That - if this post gets any replies - the exact people I'm talking about will be reacting to this post all like "yeah exactly i knw what ur tlking about", even after writing this. Why would a serious subject such as operating system development attract these kind of people?

Maybe coming up with a better (or multiple, randomly chosen) registration question(s) is a solution to get rid of these people? But perhaps it's a good thing to have a couple of clowns around in case you get too frustrated by your own, serious, os project. They usually do make for a good laugh after all. I'm interested to hear your opinion on this.
Author:  zaval [ Fri May 12, 2017 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clowns on OSDev
if people are excited to have something printed at the screen, probably for the first time, what's wrong with their wish to share this? It's always even inspiring for others. maybe it's only 300 lines, does it matter? how many lines are needed to genuinely have a right to express an excitement of success? isn't such a view ridiculous by its own?
and I didn't see any "company" and "trademark" related things. everyone is talking about pretty much the same - their "OS", their "project".
Just like you. Do you consider yourself a clown? probably not. how you know "they" think of themselves as of Bill Gates or Albert Einstein? Isn't this some kind of reflection?
This thread is flame, nothing more. It's clear that someone annoys you. The best solution is to ignore them, and not bring up a snobbish thread. Arrogance is no way better than infantility.
Author:  teeuwen [ Fri May 12, 2017 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clowns on OSDev
zaval wrote:
if people are excited to have something printed at the screen, probably for the first time, what's wrong with their wish to share this? It's always even inspiring for others. maybe it's only 300 lines, does it matter? how many lines are needed to genuinely have a right to express an excitement of success? isn't such a view ridiculous by its own?
and I didn't see any "company" and "trademark" related things. everyone is talking about pretty much the same - their "OS", their "project".
Just like you. Do you consider yourself a clown? probably not. how you know "they" think of themselves as of Bill Gates or Albert Einstein? Isn't this some kind of reflection?
This thread is flame, nothing more. It's clear that someone annoys you. The best solution is to ignore them, and not bring up a snobbish thread. Arrogance is no way better than infantility.


After reading the first the paragraphs of your reply, I wanted to reply in defense.
Yet after reading the 3rd one, I realize you're right that it may be better to just let it go as this very thread proves I'm not that much better myself. Ignoring is the better option and I'm just wasting my time here when I could be doing so much more.

You're a good man zaval, thanks for setting me right.

EDIT: Even though I won't go any further than this, I still feel like I wasn't clear enough: I am not talking about people who are simply starting out here. It's the group who doesn't have the slightest clue because they have no experience in low-level programming (or programming in general) whatsoever.
Author:  dozniak [ Sat May 13, 2017 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clowns on OSDev
There are many people who has little to no previous programming experience.

While it is generally discouraged to go into OSdev before you learn your share of programming techniques and practices, we cannot forbid them. And if they choose to learn this way - all the power to them. Some of them will get something accomplished, or get interested in more programming areas. Some of them not, but you cannot prevent them from trying.

Some of them will just brag about how great their 300 lines of copypasted code is. It's usual for humans. If they don't do anything else but learn a little bit about programming - all the better.
Author:  Muazzam [ Tue May 16, 2017 1:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Clowns on OSDev
Exactly. Probably not worse than most of 18 to 23-year-old university-going Pakistanis. They'll make a blogspot "website" that goes something like that: "u Can download FREE Software moviez And every thing" (sic) and then they'll change their Facebook status to "CEO/Cofounder at xyz.blogspot.com". They seriously think they're computer ("IT" being their preferred term) experts and they'll auto-magically earn billions online! And they're surprisingly common.

Did I say that they're university-going young adults, not 8-year-olds?
Author:  Geri [ Tue May 16, 2017 5:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Clowns on OSDev
Muazzam: here (hungary) its even worse. here the holy cow is the Big Corporation, where they will have the *right* to expertise on something.
Author:  obiwac [ Tue May 16, 2017 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clowns on OSDev
IMO I'm fine with bragging. I, personally, CONSTANTLY brag about my OS and the fact that I'm making an OS and I'm only 12. Look, I'm doing it right now. Of course, nobody understands what OSdev is, and think it's just a matter of "drag 'n' drop". Which pushes me (and probably those "clowns") to brag even more.

What I'm trying to say is that it's normal to brag about these kinds of things, because people generally don't understand how "hard" it is. Even for a copy-paste few modifications, release, brag routine. This is again, only my very own humble opinion, and this is also probably very much off topic.
Author:  Muazzam [ Wed May 17, 2017 5:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Clowns on OSDev
obiwac wrote:
Of course, nobody understands what OSdev is

It's a delusion, I had it too when I was your age. Almost any average programmer would be able to develop an average OSDev OS (with simple GUI, file system, program loading, text editor, etc.). (Provided that he is willing to devote something like a week studying basic architecture, interrupt routines, etc.)
Author:  Geri [ Wed May 17, 2017 7:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Clowns on OSDev
Muazzam: you overestimating the ability of general programmers. a regular programmer of nowdays is basically a trained sofware operator who can put down a button and a textbox in some developing environment. a generic programmer would not even able to write a texture renderer, he would not even understands what a register is, he would not even understand what memory management, file system, or instruction set is.

what you actually see - the loud coders on the net communities who are actually making something - is the elite, a very small and insignificant fragment, totally maximum a few tens of tousand person from the whole earth. what you are seeing in this forum, is the total number of people who is capable to make an os (minus of course the people who made OS in the past, but they are not doing it any more, and minus the people without internet, and there is a small fragment of people who is not registers on forums like this, or registers only to language specific forums).
Author:  Muazzam [ Wed May 17, 2017 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Clowns on OSDev
Geri wrote:
a regular programmer of nowdays is basically a trained sofware operator who can put down a button and a textbox in some developing environment.

Well, they shouldn't be counted as programmers. Just clerks or something.
Author:  Kevin [ Wed May 17, 2017 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Clowns on OSDev
Geri wrote:
Muazzam: you overestimating the ability of general programmers. a regular programmer of nowdays is basically a trained sofware operator who can put down a button and a textbox in some developing environment. a generic programmer would not even able to write a texture renderer, he would not even understands what a register is, he would not even understand what memory management, file system, or instruction set is.

Geri, I think it's you who is overestimating how special you and this forum are. In fact, the end of your paragraph is downright arrogant.
Author:  iansjack [ Wed May 17, 2017 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Clowns on OSDev
Some of the worst clowns seem to be the main contributors to this pretentious thread.
Author:  Geri [ Wed May 17, 2017 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Clowns on OSDev
Kevin wrote:
Geri, I think it's you who is overestimating how special you and this forum are. In fact, the end of your paragraph is downright arrogant.

it cant be more arrogant than your comment :D
Author:  Kevin [ Wed May 17, 2017 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clowns on OSDev
"This forum" includes myself.
Author:  Geri [ Wed May 17, 2017 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clowns on OSDev
dont underestimate yourself, especially if you have some unique knowledge.
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