OSDev.org

The Place to Start for Operating System Developers
It is currently Sun May 19, 2019 12:30 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Would an OS project be helpful in getting into top colleges?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:16 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:59 am
Posts: 538
Location: Shahpur, Layyah, Pakistan
(I've already mentioned my OS multiple times on this forum. It's a self-hosting operating system written in assembly, with a text editor, 2048-like game, and FASM port. Well, it's nothing like ToaruOS or Sortix but I believe that it's above average for a high school student.)

By "top colleges" I mean the undergrad computer science programs in colleges like MIT, University of California, Berkeley, etc. Well, I know it's crazy because my grades are very mediocre (~80%) and have no other extracurricular activities (no one does in this part of the world). Apart from that, my SAT scores would probably be 1500 out of 1600 or something like that. Would they even care about the OS?

By the way, here in Pakistan, the universities don't give a damn about anything other than grades.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Would an OS project be helpful in getting into top colle
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:10 am 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:27 pm
Posts: 67
Muazzam wrote:
(I've already mentioned my OS multiple times on this forum. It's a self-hosting operating system written in assembly, with a text editor, 2048-like game, and FASM port. Well, it's nothing like ToaruOS or Sortix but I believe that it's above average for a high school student.)

By "top colleges" I mean the undergrad computer science programs in colleges like MIT, University of California, Berkeley, etc. Well, I know it's crazy because my grades are very mediocre (~80%) and have no other extracurricular activities (no one does in this part of the world). Apart from that, my SAT scores would probably be 1500 out of 1600 or something like that. Would they even care about the OS?

By the way, here in Pakistan, the universities don't give a damn about anything other than grades.


This is true everywhere...

University is more for thinker than do'er, so they only care for the intellectuals and not the geek.
Some universities do consider work experience in lieu of academic knowledge but they are mostly lower tier like UQAM in Quebec, Canada.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Would an OS project be helpful in getting into top colle
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:30 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:07 am
Posts: 3362
Location: Chichester, UK
The best way to find out would be to ask them.

One word of advice - I would avoid any mention of this website. Some of your posts here might be detrimental to an application.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Would an OS project be helpful in getting into top colle
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:38 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:00 am
Posts: 8561
Location: At his keyboard!
Hi,

Muazzam wrote:
By the way, here in Pakistan, the universities don't give a damn about anything other than grades.


I'm sure they also care about your ability to pay their fees.

Note that if you write an "extremely awesome" OS, it'll probably get you into a better career than a degree would have, and you'll probably be given one or more honorary degrees without any of the usual hassle (studying, student debt). Of course getting a degree is much faster and easier (with less risk of failure).


Cheers,

Brendan

_________________
For all things; perfection is, and will always remain, impossible to achieve in practice. However; by striving for perfection we create things that are as perfect as practically possible. Let the pursuit of perfection be our guide.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Would an OS project be helpful in getting into top colle
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:56 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:52 pm
Posts: 286
Location: East Riding of Yorkshire, UK
There's no harm in mentioning your OS. It might even help if there are limited places on a course and you're competing with other people for a place. However they're not going to see it and immediately throw degrees at you, you'll still want good grades before applying ;)

_________________
com.sun.java.swing.plaf.nimbus.InternalFrameInternalFrameTitlePaneInternalFrameTitlePaneMaximizeButtonWindowNotFocusedState
Compiler Development Forum


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Would an OS project be helpful in getting into top colle
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:20 pm 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:41 am
Posts: 90
Location: Netherlands
I recently applied to Cambridge, and did list my OS project and my CodeCup (board game AI competition) entry under my hobbies/extra curricular activities, but my OS isn't all that impressive, neither was my CodeCup entry yet (at that time I hadn't won yet), and neither were my school grades (that is, compared to what I'd expect an average Cambridge student gets), although I did have SAT scores of 780 in physics and 800 in mathematics (out of 800). I was invited to an interview at Cambridge, but didn't get an offer. At the interview they didn't ask about my OS or CodeCup entry, but they did ask about some other information and extracurricular activities such as my motivation for doing Computer Science and not maths/physics (which I'm both interested in as well), and my participation in the dutch CS and Physics Olympiads.

So writing an OS is (or at least in my case was) definitely not a free pass. But it might show them how interested and motivated you are, and it also shows some dedication and the ability to stick with long projects. They might prefer applicants who do computer science related things in their free time over the ones who do better in school but show no sign of interest/motivation aside from school. However, univerversities like Cambridge take a lot of things into consideration, including your educational background (such as the inability to do any extracurricular activities because of the part of the world you live in), grades, extracurricular activities, personal statement / motivation letter, the tests you take while you're there, your interview, maybe even SAT scores if you have those... pretty much everything you give them.

So my tip would be to be yourself, apply, put 'yourself' on the application form (including your OS and/or other projects, and your educational background) and accept whatever the outcome is.

P.S. 'not super grades' aren't the only/best indication of your future grades, when I applied I predicted higher grades than I had at the time, and wasn't sure if I would ever meet those predictions, I'm now almost done with my final year and my grades so far have far exceeded my predicted grades.

P.P.S I'd also recommend checking out the websites of the universities you are interested in, usually they'll have a lot of information about what things to put in your application. And you could also just send them an email, pretty much all universities have a special email address for application related questions.

_________________
Lithik


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Would an OS project be helpful in getting into top colle
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:07 pm 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:59 am
Posts: 538
Location: Shahpur, Layyah, Pakistan
Thanks for the responses. I think I'll apply. Though my chance of getting into these colleges is probably as low as winning a lottery. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Would an OS project be helpful in getting into top colle
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:32 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 1761
Location: Hong Kong
I doubt the people at university care to spend time investigate what you have done, unless the things is exceptional and outstanding (for example. if you designed & wrote most of BeOS, that is easily recognizable).

If you indeed have some awesome works, it's also better to have some expert in the field to back you up, and then use that to approach the guards.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Would an OS project be helpful in getting into top colle
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:18 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:18 pm
Posts: 28
I used my OS many times as my main reference when I was on interview to get new job. It's more valuable reference than degree. Actually I don't see any advantages of going to college when I already made OS from scratch. There in Czech Republic isn't degree as important as your knowledge and experience.

When you know programming and you can find job it is better to work for 5 years and get practical experience from work than get degree. You start as a junior programmer in both. If you start working as a programmer with degree or without.

_________________
Trinix (written in D) https://github.com/Rikarin/Trinix
Streaming OS development https://www.livecoding.tv/satoshi/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Would an OS project be helpful in getting into top colle
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:44 am 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 1:27 pm
Posts: 570
Satoshi wrote:
I used my OS many times as my main reference when I was on interview to get new job. It's more valuable reference than degree. Actually I don't see any advantages of going to college when I already made OS from scratch. There in Czech Republic isn't degree as important as your knowledge and experience.

When you know programming and you can find job it is better to work for 5 years and get practical experience from work than get degree. You start as a junior programmer in both. If you start working as a programmer with degree or without.

Why would you want to work as a plain programmer if you have as CS degree? Even with a software engineering degree you're likely overqualified for simple programming work. EDIT: I was assuming degree = master's degree here.

_________________
managarm: A microkernel-based OS that is capable of running a Wayland desktop


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Would an OS project be helpful in getting into top colle
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:05 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 1761
Location: Hong Kong
Satoshi wrote:
When you know programming and you can find job it is better to work for 5 years and get practical experience from work than get degree


While I agree 5 years working experience have much more weight over degree, especially in technology field, however, in most company where policy is as hard as the rock, you simply get screened out by the non-technical HR even if you are the next [insert name here], you would need additional work to penetrate into the technical guy and prove your skill.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Would an OS project be helpful in getting into top colle
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:32 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:42 am
Posts: 1445
Location: Athens, GA, USA
I cannot speak for elsewhere, but in the US, most larger HR departments won't even look at your resume if you don't have at least a BSCS regardless of experience - simply because they can weed out most of the candidates that way. While there is a dearth of qualified candidates, their is an endless torrent of unqualified applicants for most positions, and since most HR personnel do not themselves know anything about IT, they simply don't bother with anyone who doesn't have some sort of degree.

This has had many unfortunate effects on CS education in the US, because CS and commercial IT are entirely different topics with only the act of writing code in common. This has caused most 'computer science' (ugh, terrible term for the field) and 'software engineering' (better, but a bit of wishful thinking in regards to the rigor of the field) curricula in small (and especially public) universities to turn into what are basically trade school courseloads with a bunch of general-study requirements tacked onto them. The schools that actually teach software engineering are mainly focused on teaching future CS teachers, which is of little use for someone who sees a degree as a stepping stone to a job - regardless of the field. This occurs in many university disciplines, but it is especially visible in CS for a number of reasons.

_________________
Rev. First Speaker Schol-R-LEA;2 LCF ELF JAM POEE KoR KCO PPWMTF
μή εἶναι βασιλικήν ἀτραπόν ἐπί γεωμετρίαν
Lisp programmers tend to seem very odd to outsiders, just like anyone else who has had a religious experience they can't quite explain to others.


Last edited by Schol-R-LEA on Tue May 02, 2017 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Would an OS project be helpful in getting into top colle
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:48 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:47 pm
Posts: 286
Location: Tustin, CA USA
I offer a US perspective as well.

Schol-R-LEA wrote:
most larger HR departments won't even look at your resume if you don't have at least a BSCS


The reason for this is that the degree tells the companies that:
* you can be taught
* you can learn on your own

Now, I see 2 very different career paths in software. 1 is the typical software engineer as you described. The other that is usually overlooked but is by far more prevalent in my opinion, is in a corporate Information Technology department. These careers (and I include myself here), are individuals that know their business as much as they know computers. in this case, a Computer Science degree might get your resume more serious look, but a Business Administration degree will get you an interview.

My advice to the OP is to take a really close look at what you want to do. In a corporate IT setting, a Computer Science degree that cannot communicate with the business is not desirable, but a Business Admin degree with a concentration in Computer Information Systems that interfaces with the business well and can talk the lingo with the programmers (and maybe even get into the code) is incredibly valuable (one such job title is Business Analyst). In a software house, the Computer Science degree works well.

_________________
Adam

The name is fitting: Century Hobby OS -- At this rate, it's gonna take me that long!
Read about my mistakes and missteps with this iteration: Journal

"Sometimes things just don't make sense until you figure them out." -- Phil Stahlheber


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Would an OS project be helpful in getting into top colle
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:23 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:18 pm
Posts: 28
eryjus wrote:
I offer a US perspective as well.

Schol-R-LEA wrote:
most larger HR departments won't even look at your resume if you don't have at least a BSCS


The reason for this is that the degree tells the companies that:
* you can be taught
* you can learn on your own

Now, I see 2 very different career paths in software. 1 is the typical software engineer as you described. The other that is usually overlooked but is by far more prevalent in my opinion, is in a corporate Information Technology department. These careers (and I include myself here), are individuals that know their business as much as they know computers. in this case, a Computer Science degree might get your resume more serious look, but a Business Administration degree will get you an interview.

My advice to the OP is to take a really close look at what you want to do. In a corporate IT setting, a Computer Science degree that cannot communicate with the business is not desirable, but a Business Admin degree with a concentration in Computer Information Systems that interfaces with the business well and can talk the lingo with the programmers (and maybe even get into the code) is incredibly valuable (one such job title is Business Analyst). In a software house, the Computer Science degree works well.


You can learn on your own even if you don't have degree.
Over there degree also could mean you are too lazy to go to work so you are going to school. (Like half of my high school colleagues.)

In my country HR calls you, ask you some questions about programming when you can answer them you can be promoted to interview with someone who has programming skills. He will look at your LinkedIn profile, CV, your opensource projects on github, etc. Just because degree can get almost everyone there.

But yes, getting your first job without any previous professional skills or degree is quite hard. But after half year in maybe worse company you can try to get better job somewhere else.

HR over there uses LinkedIn to find new people. Maybe try to fill it like for more dump people.
This is my LinkedIn profile and I'm getting like 5 to 10 job requests per month. https://www.linkedin.com/in/ren%C3%A9-% ... 27441a110/

_________________
Trinix (written in D) https://github.com/Rikarin/Trinix
Streaming OS development https://www.livecoding.tv/satoshi/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Would an OS project be helpful in getting into top colle
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:27 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:59 am
Posts: 538
Location: Shahpur, Layyah, Pakistan
eryjus wrote:
My advice to the OP is to take a really close look at what you want to do. In a corporate IT setting, a Computer Science degree that cannot communicate with the business is not desirable, but a Business Admin degree with a concentration in Computer Information Systems that interfaces with the business well and can talk the lingo with the programmers (and maybe even get into the code) is incredibly valuable (one such job title is Business Analyst). In a software house, the Computer Science degree works well.

Thanks for the advice. By the way, I intend to pursue a PhD degree in computer science (or physics or math, perhaps; I haven't decided yet). I've always wanted to become a scientist! (Not sure if computer science really counts as science.)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group