OSDev.org

The Place to Start for Operating System Developers
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:09 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Unix Bashing
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:06 am 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:01 pm
Posts: 5099
mathematician wrote:
Off and on, I have spent the last few years looking for a C compiler which was:

a.) 64 bit
b.) Run under Windows
c.) Produced ELF files.
GCC is all three (including both interpretations of "64 bit"). Are there any other criteria that GCC does not satisfy?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Custom Programming Language
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:17 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:26 pm
Posts: 437
Location: Church Stretton Uk
Octocontrabass wrote:
mathematician wrote:
Off and on, I have spent the last few years looking for a C compiler which was:

a.) 64 bit
b.) Run under Windows
c.) Produced ELF files.
GCC is all three (including both interpretations of "64 bit"). Are there any other criteria that GCC does not satisfy?


I know, but I hate Unix, and all its works; even when it comes in the form of Cygwin.

_________________
The continuous image of a connected set is connected.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Custom Programming Language
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:45 am 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:01 pm
Posts: 5099
mathematician wrote:
I know, but I hate Unix, and all its works; even when it comes in the form of Cygwin.
I hate Cygwin too, that's why I use MinGW/MSYS. ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Custom Programming Language
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:23 am 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:57 pm
Posts: 306
Location: Germany
mathematician wrote:
I know, but I hate Unix, and all its works; even when it comes in the form of Cygwin.
You probably know that the vast majority of tools actually used for OSdeving purposes run only on Unices natively. Microsoft should be ashamed that they don't have a proper compiler that is capable of producing any other formats than PE. You may hate the design of UNIX-like systems, but you can't just hate the software for it in general (e.g. I don't exactly like Windows, but LoL is still a good game, even though it only runs on Windows and OS X).

Saying that you don't like anything UNIX-related is like nazi logic: as if you'd only see black and white and there's nothing in between.

_________________
managarm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Custom Programming Language
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:44 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:26 pm
Posts: 437
Location: Church Stretton Uk
no92 wrote:
mathematician wrote:
I know, but I hate Unix, and all its works; even when it comes in the form of Cygwin.
You probably know that the vast majority of tools actually used for OSdeving purposes run only on Unices natively. Microsoft should be ashamed that they don't have a proper compiler that is capable of producing any other formats than PE.


I still don't like Unix. Microsoft's latest compiler will produce code for Android.

_________________
The continuous image of a connected set is connected.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Custom Programming Language
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:02 am 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:57 pm
Posts: 306
Location: Germany
I could help you, if you tell the reasons for which you don't like Unix software. Just saying that you hate something for no obvious reason just makes you look like a stupid noob.

_________________
managarm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Custom Programming Language
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:07 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:26 pm
Posts: 437
Location: Church Stretton Uk
no92 wrote:
I could help you, if you tell the reasons for which you don't like Unix software. Just saying that you hate something for no obvious reason just makes you look like a stupid noob.


I only know that it always has me tearing my hair out. I don't bother to document particular instances, or to remember them.

At the moment I have a version of Linux sitting on a few spare gigabytes, but the loader decided to go absent without leave. My first reaction was, "Oh well, what do you expect? This is Unix after all."

_________________
The continuous image of a connected set is connected.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Custom Programming Language
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:22 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:45 am
Posts: 9301
Location: On the balcony, where I can actually keep 1½m distance
mathematician wrote:
At the moment I have a version of Linux sitting on a few spare gigabytes, but the loader decided to go absent without leave. My first reaction was, "Oh well, what do you expect? This is Unix after all."
Are you sure it isn't "You updated windows and it kicked everything else off your computer. What did you expect?" :wink:

_________________
"Certainly avoid yourself. He is a newbie and might not realize it. You'll hate his code deeply a few years down the road." - Sortie
[ My OS ] [ VDisk/SFS ]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Custom Programming Language
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:55 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:42 am
Posts: 1925
Location: Athens, GA, USA
Can we please limit the bashing of existing systems to 'every OS sucks' and focus on the language in question, please? 'Cos I frankly don't have enough time in the day to delineate how crappy all the existing operating systems are. There isn't a one which is even remotely any good, and that's a fact we simply have to live with for now.

_________________
Rev. First Speaker Schol-R-LEA;2 LCF ELF JAM POEE KoR KCO PPWMTF
Ordo OS Project
Lisp programmers tend to seem very odd to outsiders, just like anyone else who has had a religious experience they can't quite explain to others.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Custom Programming Language
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:42 pm 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:20 pm
Posts: 74
[quote="mathematician"At the moment I have a version of Linux sitting on a few spare gigabytes, but the loader decided to go absent without leave.[/quote]

Boot into a livecd and rerun grub-install (and possibly grub-mkconfig).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Custom Programming Language
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:58 pm 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:07 am
Posts: 4591
Location: Chichester, UK
I'd say that you are looking at the wrong end of the problem. It's not the language definition or the compiler that determines the object file format, but the assembler and binutils. I'd say that you need to start there, writing an assembler that can output elf64 object files and then a linker that can handle them, before worrying about the compiler end of thIngs.

TBH, I would have serious doubts that someone who dismsses out of hand a very successfull range of operating systems, and is unable to get a simple Linux installation to work, would be capable of producing such software. I suspect that you will get bogged down with this and never get as far as writing your OS.

Why not take the pragmatic approach and use Windows format object files or else bite the bullet and make the effort to learn Unix? Millions of people manage that; it's really not as difficult as it might seem.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Custom Programming Language
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:21 pm 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:26 pm
Posts: 437
Location: Church Stretton Uk
iansjack wrote:
I'd say that you are looking at the wrong end of the problem. It's not the language definition or the compiler that determines the object file format, but the assembler and binutils. I'd say that you need to start there, writing an assembler that can output elf64 object files and then a linker that can handle them, before worrying about the compiler end of thIngs.

TBH, I would have serious doubts that someone who dismsses out of hand a very successfull range of operating systems, and is unable to get a simple Linux installation to work, would be capable of producing such software. I suspect that you will get bogged down with this and never get as far as writing your OS.

Why not take the pragmatic approach and use Windows format object files or else bite the bullet and make the effort to learn Unix? Millions of people manage that; it's really not as difficult as it might seem.


http://web.mit.edu/~simsong/www/ugh.pdf

_________________
The continuous image of a connected set is connected.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Custom Programming Language
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:27 pm 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:38 pm
Posts: 558
If you seriously just posted a humorous work as an argument to support your "unix is had because I can't use it and I hate it" stance, I don't know what to think about the world anymore.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Custom Programming Language
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:30 pm 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:07 am
Posts: 4591
Location: Chichester, UK
You need someone else (from 20 years ago) to tell us why you hate Unix?

I note that the forward is by an "Apple Fellow, Apple Computer Inc.". Who says irony is dead?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Custom Programming Language
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:33 pm 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:26 pm
Posts: 437
Location: Church Stretton Uk
Kazinsal wrote:
If you seriously just posted a humorous work as an argument to support your "unix is had because I can't use it and I hate it" stance, I don't know what to think about the world anymore.


Humorous if might be, but it is humour born of hard experience.

_________________
The continuous image of a connected set is connected.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 37 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group