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 Post subject: Re: We (OSDev.org) are in the wrong direction, guys...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:48 am 
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I don't think the direction is wrong as much as this site is like so many other things wherein direction is lost or distorted overtime. Having watched this thread for the last couple of days, the underlying tone seems to be quality of content. Not so much in the Wiki, but rather participants. Now, who is going to police this.

Very simple, establish an evaluation system, that if someone has 20 posts and nobody has voted for them, then they will be flagged and moderators will need to approve content before it's made visible in the forum.

Every time someone responds to a thread, that only counts as one, not matter the number of times a remark is made in that thread, but still, each individual response will be eligible for a vote.

Respondents with a very high count, lets say 4k posts and have only 100 positive votes, I think that might be an indication of the quality of their responses.

I will not debate these points, but rather offer them as a possible solution or part of a solution and believe they may be a place to start. A mission statement may really be helpful too. Debasing rhetoric in responses is totally useless and severely diminishes the credibility of the respondent and overall quality of this site. Maybe there is some credence to "If you can't say something nice "meaningful", then don't say anything at all". Lack of input can be as poignant.


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 Post subject: Re: We (OSDev.org) are in the wrong direction, guys...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:06 pm 
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SpyderTL wrote:
Since telling people to read the manual obviously doesn't eliminate people asking these types of questions, and there's really no way of knowing how many people actually read the manual instead of asking questions on the forum, maybe we should just comprimise on an appropriate response to those questions.

I say that if you know the answer, and it can be summed up in a sentence or two, then you just answer the question, and maybe tell the OP where they can find more information. For open-ended, design questions, you just tell the OP that it is up to them, and maybe provide a few ideas, or a description of how you would solve the problem.

I would like to mention, quickly, that locking threads because they are extremely simple questions is a bad idea. It is also annoying, because it just means that I have to go and send the person a PM with the answer instead. And no one else will see it, which means that other people will probably eventually ask the same question in the future.

What do you guys think?


I would say if its in the manuals, we should respond with read a specific manual and look in a specific section. Maybe include a search term for them if they didn't use the proper terminology in their question.

Same if its on the wiki, tell them to read a specific page on the wiki, again correcting any terminology they might need.

- Monk


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 Post subject: Re: We (OSDev.org) are in the wrong direction, guys...
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 4:44 am 
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Here is a good example of how somebody can nauseate a goodwill to share his code :
http://forum.osdev.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29279

I finally decided to delete my post.


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 Post subject: Re: We (OSDev.org) are in the wrong direction, guys...
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 5:24 am 
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@remy:
There was no need to delete your code. (Com)buster just wanted to tell you that you can't ask everything without doing any research.

@all:
I think I have finally to participate in this topic. I think (Com)buster is ok (although he is sometimes rude), but on the other side Brendan is too indulgent. If he has time and wants to answer those topics, let him do it.
But going back to first post, I realize that there is a lack of active moderators. Maybe should we announce new moderators? What do you think, who would be usable as a moderator?

Regards,
glauxosdev

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 Post subject: Re: We (OSDev.org) are in the wrong direction, guys...
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 5:47 am 
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glauxosdev wrote:
But going back to first post, I realize that there is a lack of active moderators. Maybe should we announce new moderators? What do you think, who would be usable as a moderator?
In that case, you should be perfectly able to tell what should have been done that hasn't been done?

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 Post subject: Re: We (OSDev.org) are in the wrong direction, guys...
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 5:48 am 
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remy wrote:
Here is a good example of how somebody can nauseate a goodwill to share his code :
http://forum.osdev.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29279

"Sharing" your code isn't goodwill, but the minimum that is necessary to get any help. The goodwill that I can see is that people are giving you pointers to find the mistakes that are in the code, or even directly point out mistakes and suggest improvements.

If this isn't what you wanted, what did you expect when you started the thread? "Here's the fixed version of your code"?

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 Post subject: Re: We (OSDev.org) are in the wrong direction, guys...
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 5:51 am 
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But going back to first post, I realize that there is a lack of active moderators. Maybe should we announce new moderators? What do you think, who would be usable as a moderator?


You seem to have some expectation of moderators that you do not see fulfilled. What expectations do you have that you do not see the current moderator team fulfilling?


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 Post subject: Re: We (OSDev.org) are in the wrong direction, guys...
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 5:59 am 
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I expect them to work on the wiki, as well as eliminating some useless posts and topics. I think moderators should be more active, as well as other members.

Regards,
glauxosdev

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 Post subject: Re: We (OSDev.org) are in the wrong direction, guys...
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 6:32 am 
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glauxosdev wrote:
I expect them to work on the wiki
Moderators are merely people granted with the trust and privileges to do things average users can't do. What you ask does not require a moderator, and doesn't improve by having more moderators.

Quote:
eliminating some useless posts and topics.
Why am I not surprised that you never reported any posts? It can't be that much of an issue. :-k

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 Post subject: Re: We (OSDev.org) are in the wrong direction, guys...
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 6:40 am 
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Combuster wrote:
Why am I not surprised that you never reported any posts? It can't be that much of an issue. :-k
I want first to learn what needs locking (I am still new here). But I know, as I said, that Brendan is too indulgent.

Regards,
glauxosdev

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 Post subject: Re: We (OSDev.org) are in the wrong direction, guys...
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 8:17 am 
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Quote:
I expect them to work on the wiki, as well as eliminating some useless posts and topics. I think moderators should be more active, as well as other members.


That explains quite why most moderators don't do what you expect them to do. Moderators typically act to moderate - temper, take-off-the-heat - discussions and activity. That's in part why I'm replying in this thread - it's quite inflammatory and intended to draw peoples ire.

Working on the wiki is in no way related to being a moderator on the forum. Typically moderators are people that are present a lot (1) and being present a lot means you are probably also doing something on the wiki (2), but they just happen to correlate. There's no requirement for a moderator to do something on the wiki. Heck, no moderator here is paid anything for their time and effort, and I don't expect that to change either - so you're just seeing other people spending their time on keeping the forum a nice place to be. You could show a bit of thanks for that.

Eliminating useless posts and topics; yes, we do. You can't see the graveyard of posts and threads that we have (for when we think we should reinstate some) but it's pretty large. Most of the time you don't notice it though, because of exactly this reason. There is a point to be made when you're moderating too much, which is (IMO) when people start to notice the moderation. If you actively see topics disappearing and see people create threads about other threads being removed, that's when you're getting to heavy moderation. For some places (reddit.com/r/askscience for example) that's appropriate, but on an open forum like this it isn't.


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 Post subject: Re: We (OSDev.org) are in the wrong direction, guys...
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 10:32 am 
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glauxosdev wrote:
I expect them to work on the wiki, as well as eliminating some useless posts and topics. I think moderators should be more active, as well as other members.

Regards,
glauxosdev


This is your fault. Really, use the report post feature on anything you do not like. This makes stuff visible to the moderators and they give a second opinion. This makes you a moderator. I don't read many of the useless topics unless they are brought to my attention.

No, we have enough mods


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 Post subject: Re: We (OSDev.org) are in the wrong direction, guys...
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 1:43 pm 
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Yes, Candy and Sortie, I think you are right. If you say we have enough moderators, I have nothing else to complain about. You surely know better than me! You are the moderators after all! :D

Regards,
glauxosdev

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 Post subject: Re: We (OSDev.org) are in the wrong direction, guys...
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 2:53 pm 
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I think you are missing the point, which is that, if you feel a post should be moderated, you should bring that to the attention of the moderators. They are likely to disagree with you in at least some cases, but really, even in a low-traffic site such as this one, not everything can be noticed by the moderators themselves. Apply your own standards to the use of the Report button, and let them see if they agree with you.

Mind you, the job of the moderators is not to discard threads they feel aren't up to the standards of the site; their job is to discard or or moderate threads or posts containing material completely inappropriate to the site (spam and other forms of advertisements, hostile or inflammatory posts, obvious trolling, etc.). You are asking them to take on an editorial role that does not fit the moderators' place in an open forum.

While I agree that there are really far too many posts and threads which amount to instances of help vampirism, that is the inevitable consequence of an open forum on a technical subject. The real solution is not moderation, but the development of a culture that discourages Help Vampires from their unwanted behavior without discouraging their interest in the subject. In essence, we need to be teaching the 'gimme gimmes' to be more self-reliant, which isn't easy, especially over a (mainly) text-only forum. It is a hard, narrow path, and few fora manage to walk it, but that really is the best answer anyone can give.

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 Post subject: Re: We (OSDev.org) are in the wrong direction, guys...
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:56 am 
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I honestly think that we should provide way as much info as possible, so the newcomers can write code by themselves. "COPY-PASTE" is what happens when you put too much code. And it doesn't end well.

I also think i have partly made the transition from http://wiki.osdev.org/Duct_von_Tape to http://wiki.osdev.org/Stan_Dard.

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