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 Post subject: A proposal to translate the site into Spanish.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:49 pm 
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Hello everyone,
Some time ago, I have realized that most of information for OS development is in English( for an obvious reason ), but there are a lot of people that doesn't have too much English skills. These people can be great programmers, but with the language limitation they can't learn.
Moreover the translators, like Google Translator, can help us but they can't translate all properly.
My proposal is to translate some pages into Spanish and link it into the pages (like in other wikis). It's obvious that only for me, it'll be very difficult (because I've got no much time), it's for this that I would need some help. Can the site admin answer my question?

SPANISH:
Ya hace tiempo que me he dado cuenta que casi toda la información ( por no decir toda ) está en inglés, pero hay mucha gente que no tiene demasiadas habilidades en inglés. Estas personas podrían ser grandes programadores, pero con la limitación del lenguaje, no pueden aprender. Además, los traductores, aunque puedan ayudar, no pueden traducir todo correctamente, como por ejemplo el código (incluso a veces no traducen casi nada bien). Mi propósito es traducir algunas páginas de la wiki en español y enlazarlas en el interior de la página( como en la wikipedia). Es obvio que yo solo no podré hacerlo (no dispongo de demasiado tiempo), es por ello que necesitaría algo de ayuda. ¿Podría el administrador responderme?


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 Post subject: Re: A proposal to translate the site into Spanish.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:56 pm 
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Yo:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22797

The idea has been debated before~~

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 Post subject: Re: A proposal to translate the site into Spanish.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:14 pm 
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I down vote and if this site should be translated into any languages it should be Hindi, German, Chinese, and Japanses

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 Post subject: Re: A proposal to translate the site into Spanish.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:27 am 
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zeitue wrote:
I down vote and if this site should be translated into any languages it should be Hindi, German, Chinese, and Japanses

Spanish is second most spoken mother tongue, and it's the third most spoken language.


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 Post subject: Re: A proposal to translate the site into Spanish.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:17 am 
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zeitue wrote:
I down vote and if this site should be translated into any languages it should be Hindi, German, Chinese, and Japanses
Eventually, good, valuable material should be translated into every language in use. But even looking at Wikipedia, we can see that articles for one same thing are better, worse or outdated among different languages. All people who speak the different languages would have the same kind of interest in seeing content translated into their native language.

However, translating at least the current version of the documentation into native languages and trying to keep updates from there, is the only way to go in this day and age, where there are a lot of little kids (and also young individuals, and people in general who are intelligent but who simply don't speak fluent English) who are brilliant and who have free information opportunities, but who currently only know their own native language at most. With translation, they won't need to grow up to learn English (the main choice for these topics) for them to get out the most of their lifetime from their very starting younger years, and will be able to start learning a lot for themselves as soon as they decide they want to, not until they learn English as their main second tongue.

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ateno3 wrote:
Hello everyone,
Some time ago, I have realized that most of information for OS development is in English( for an obvious reason ), but there are a lot of people that doesn't have too much English skills. These people can be great programmers, but with the language limitation they can't learn.
Moreover the translators, like Google Translator, can help us but they can't translate all properly.
My proposal is to translate some pages into Spanish and link it into the pages (like in other wikis). It's obvious that only for me, it'll be very difficult (because I've got no much time), it's for this that I would need some help. Can the site admin answer my question?

SPANISH:
Ya hace tiempo que me he dado cuenta que casi toda la información ( por no decir toda ) está en inglés, pero hay mucha gente que no tiene demasiadas habilidades en inglés. Estas personas podrían ser grandes programadores, pero con la limitación del lenguaje, no pueden aprender. Además, los traductores, aunque puedan ayudar, no pueden traducir todo correctamente, como por ejemplo el código (incluso a veces no traducen casi nada bien). Mi propósito es traducir algunas páginas de la wiki en español y enlazarlas en el interior de la página( como en la wikipedia). Es obvio que yo solo no podré hacerlo (no dispongo de demasiado tiempo), es por ello que necesitaría algo de ayuda. ¿Podría el administrador responderme?
If other people around here don't seem to be interested in your idea, you shouldn't worry. You can always start your own effort or project and start by hosting it yourself; then you can share the results with everyone else at your own pace.

I have been doing exactly this thing (translating information, as well as writing my very own material, from all over the web into both Spanish and English, although not specific to material from OSDev.org or OSDever.net for reasons of personal learning needs of different programming topics) for two major reasons: Helping Spanish-speaking people to learn about more advanced topics (including OS development); and because when I translate a document into a different language, I get to understand it in a fraction of time, and I can distinguish tiny yet vital details I would certainly have missed had I simply read the document normally. It really obligates me to figure out the true practical meaning of what I read, and realize what I don't understand, and take measures accordingly to solve that.

>> If you want to see what I have in Spanish you can see clicking here <<

>> If you want to see what I have in English you can see clicking here <<

I probably can help you to a degree. I have tried to directly help Spanish-speaking people in the past, but I see that that doesn't really last for so long just because what I need to study at that very moment is absolutely different from what the other party wants to study or do at that moment (and the fact that they want to focus on their programming projects more than helping reciprocally as much as I help them, and really do something collectively, more robust). I would always like to help and I will help (I have nothing against anyone), but I can only help when what the other needs is the same thing I am currently working in.

The other thing you'll see is that, as you probably know, Spanish and Latin people (Spanish-speaking people in general) sadly have virtually no interest on these topics, so do not even expect the effort to be very popular, but rather material that will be sporadically accessed, and in very small quantities.

If it seems good to you or somebody else, you can contact me via private messages, but I most certainly won't be able to help directly at this very moment (althogh I can help with permanent support, questions and hosting even for collective material, specially public domain documentation, source code and other development stuff) in topics that don't have to do with implementing a PC emulator (Assembly, generic PC hardware, BIOS functions, and the like). You can see the topics I am currently locked into attempting to study right now here (in Spanish), so you can evaluate whether you are interested in starting from there, since translating technical documentation is not everything that there is to learning these topics (it is also necessary to write better and better code):

Emulador de PC, VGA y el Resto de Periféricos

And if you are here asking for help, you will certainly need so much more than what OSDev.org and OSDever.net are specifically intended to teach, so it makes no harm to study and translate material from other sources, for more basic topics, or just for different topics than those covered in the OSDev Wiki or the different OS development websites.

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Español

Si otras personas no parecen estar interesadas en la idea, uno no debería preocuparse. Uno siempre puede comenzar su propio esfuerzo particular o sus propios proyectos y comenzar por mantenerlos uno mismo; entonces se puede compartir los resultados con los demás según uno pueda.

Yo he estado haciendo esto exactamente (traduciendo información de toda la web tanto en Español como Inglés, así como creando mi propio material original, tanto en Español como en Inglés, aunque no específicamente para material de OSDev.org u OSDever.net por razones de necesidades personales de aprendizaje de diferentes temas de programación) por dos razones principales: Ayudar a la gente que habla Español como lengua nativa para aprender sobre temas más avanzados (incluyendo desarrollo de sistemas operativos); y porque cuando traduzco un documento a un idioma diferente, logro entenderlo en una fracción del tiempo, y puedo distinguir pequeñísimos pero vitales detalles que ciertamente habría pasado por alto si simplemente hubiera leído el documento normalmente. Esto me obliga a encontrarle el verdadero sentido práctico a lo que leo, y darme cuenta de lo que no entiendo, y tomar medidas para resolver eso.

>> Para ver lo que tengo en Español, ver aquí <<

>> Para ver lo que tengo en Inglés, ver aquí <<

Probablemente pueda ayudar hasta cierto punto. Ya he tratado de ayudar directamente a gente que habla Español en el pasado, pero veo que eso no dura mucho simplemente porque lo que necesito estudiar en ese preciso momento es absolutamente diferente de lo que el otro quiere estudiar o hacer en ese momento (y el hecho de que quieren centrarse en sus proyectos de programación más que ayudar recíprocamente tanto como los ayudo, y realmente hacer algo colectivamente, más robusto). Siempre me gustaría ayudar y ayudaré (no tengo nada en contra de nadie), pero solo puedo ayudar cuando lo que el otro necesita es lo mismo que en lo que yo estoy actualmente trabajando.

Lo otro que verás es que, como probablemente sabes, la gente Española y Latina (gente que habla Español en general) tristemente casi no tienen interés en estos temas, así que ni siquiera esperes que este esfuerzo será muy popular, sino que será material accedido esporádicamente, y en cantidades muy pequeñas.

Si te parece bien o si a alguien más le parece conveniente, me pueden contactar a través de mensajes privados, pero probablemente no podré ayudar de una forma directa (aunque sí puedo ayudar con soporte, consultas y hosting permanentes incluso para material creado colectivamente, especialmente si es documentación, código fuente y otro material de desarrollo que esté en el dominio público) en temas que no tengan que ver con implementar un emulador de PC (ensamblador, hardware genérico de PC, funciones del BIOS, y cosas similares). Puedes ver los temas en los que estoy actualmente dedicado a entender en este momento (en Español), así que puedes evaluar si estás interesado en comenzar desde ahí, ya que traducir documentación técnica no es todo lo que se necesita para aprender estos temas (también es necesario escribir código cada vez mejor):

Emulador de PC, VGA y el Resto de Periféricos

Y si estás aquí para pedir ayuda, ciertamente será necesario muchísimo más que lo que OSDev.org y OSDever.net están específicamente pensados para enseñar, así que no hará daño estudiar y traducir material de otras fuentes, para temas más básicos, o simplemente para cubrir temas diferentes de los que se cubren en la Wiki de OSDev o en los diferentes sitios web de desarrollo de sistemas operativos.

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 Post subject: Re: A proposal to translate the site into Spanish.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:14 pm 
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I know a few programmers who has Spanish as mother tongue but all of them would never ask if there is a Spanish translation. English is THE language when it comes to computer science due to historical reasons. We can translate computer science books to Spanish but you will quickly notice how many words that will remain the same because there is no Spanish translation or they simply use the English word.

In medical science and biology you will see that there are frequent words in Latin because of the history. Today, though they are most in English as well because Latin is a dead spoken language. I'm not against translating texts but the reality is that the majority of Spanish speakers gladly accept computer science written in English today but that might change in the future, who knows.


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 Post subject: Re: A proposal to translate the site into Spanish.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:47 pm 
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OSwhatever wrote:
I know a few programmers who has Spanish as mother tongue but all of them would never ask if there is a Spanish translation. English is THE language when it comes to computer science due to historical reasons.
I don't require translations either, but I see that there is always curious people who would benefit from a translation into any language other than English while they learn English and become more advanced (kids, teenagers and others?). And in my case also given that I know more than 1 language, I got to find out that translating greatly improves my study, although it is much more time and energy-consuming (at the speed of the typing and at the understanding of the written material).

Of course, such translations will only naturally appear as an initiative of somebody, or as a result of a bigger project like Wikipedia or otherwise well-funded commercial products.

OSwhatever wrote:
We can translate computer science books to Spanish but you will quickly notice how many words that will remain the same because there is no Spanish translation or they simply use the English word. In medical science and biology you will see that there are frequent words in Latin because of the history. Today, though they are most in English as well because Latin is a dead spoken language. I'm not against translating texts but the reality is that the majority of Spanish speakers gladly accept computer science written in English today but that might change in the future, who knows.
What I do when translating is to write the best-sounding bet, and in parentheses just after that and in italics I write the original phrase, word, term, or acronym. Sometimes I add some further explanation in addition to the word or phrase.

What is true is that translated books and material seems more confusing than the original (because they don't include the original technical terms, which they should, among other things). And is much more limited, in the case of Spanish. That's also generally the case for originally-developed technology and study materials, which is equally limited.

And of course professional and experienced programmers would know English by then so a translation into their languages would be useful almost only to allow a better study for the people translating, and also to aid in the initial learning of the new generations, which will forever keep facing the problem of not being able to read the best material if they happen to speak a language other than English and if it's a topic that isn't developed locally or that isn't required/used at the jobs of that society (at least it seems to me that people like the Chinese and other Asian countries have good material in Chinese and/or their own language, so for them a lack of rich material from their childhood would be less of a problem).

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 Post subject: Re: A proposal to translate the site into Spanish.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:39 pm 
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I am rather concerned about the multiple maintenance problem that would naturally arise from this. The fact is that the osdev wiki is rather unfinished and it is often improved. Any such translated articles would naturally be lag behind the English ones and become second-class citizens


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